I love this piece. I think about that question often--why do we need to know this?
As a history teacher, it's perhaps easier for me to answer more directly. But sometimes it isn't, and this article explains why. Two big takeaways for me: 1. That when students are asking this question, it's often because they are confused, tired or frustrated and what they actually are asking for is help. 2. The idea of "gateway" concepts. I've been thinking a lot about what those are in history class. (e.g. knowing the 50 states - https://www.middleweb.com/51788/my-7th-graders-are-memorizing-the-50-states/)
I agree whole-heartedly that the question often arises out of frustration. Students who are "getting it" don't necessarily ask it.
I don’t recall it being asked that much when I was in school, but maybe I wasn’t aware of it. I was in junior high in the early 60's when the space race had begun in earnest and there seemed to be no doubt in my mind, or in the minds of many of my classmates, of why algebra or math in general would be of any use.
Given today’s technological age, one would think the same reasoning prevails, but students keep hearing that with the Internet you can just Google the answer to many questions. I think the press and others (such as PD vendors and ed schools) plant the idea in peoples' minds that math must be relevant and kids seem to delight in asking “How am I ever going to use this in life?” I get the feeling that students have picked it up from various sitcoms and other venues that use this as a stock phrase and laugh-getter. So in addition to expressing frustration, students sometimes ask this question because they are essentially told to ask it.
Sorry, but I think this post is missing something. Yes, we need foundational knowledge, but your examples seem to come from the old 'education' framing, not an awareness of the realities of life. For instance, a good reason to learn multiplication tables is so we can do estimation, as a reality check on the numbers we get from the calculator. If we don't have an ability to estimate, we can't check if we've miskeyed and are off an order of magnitude, for instance. I fear that the way you've portrayed this could lead to the old "learn latin" arguments that have been robustly debunked. We don't need the quadratic equation, it's an artifact of a curriculum that's out of date. We do need the theoretical foundations to build upon, but we also need practical knowledge, like how to balance a checkbook. Only two things wrong with education in this country, the curriculum and the pedagogy, other than that it's fine...
I agree with what you said about multiplication tables helps us estimate and double check!
It’s ironic that you say the quadratic equation is an artifact of a curriculum that is out of date, and then say we need practical knowledge like how to balance a checkbook. I’m 32 and I’ve never needed a checkbook and I don’t know how to balance one! I’m not sure these are great examples to prove the point you’re trying to make :)
Mike, heh, maybe I should've said balance a bank statement ;). OK, so I'm old. But Roger Schank used to riff on the quadratic equation ("How many hear learned it?" Everyone [100s] raises hand. "How many have ever used it?" Maybe 1-2 hands.) Think it's still apt.
There’s some validity to that, for sure! Curriculum design is incredibly complex.
I think any push towards more practical things in the curriculum should be examined carefully. I teach mostly grade 7 and 8. I often hear people say we should teach these kids about mortgages and taxes.
In my experience, most of the students don’t care. Securing a mortgage is many years away! The kids don’t care. Paying our taxes is a pretty simple process for many people with a single stream of income, where they get a T4. They punch the numbers into the tax software and they’re done.
Every minute spent on one curriculum piece means a minute not spent on something else. There’s always an opportunity cost. So to me, it’s not “is _____ worth teaching?”, it’s “is ______ worth teaching over a list of other ideas?”
The move away from justifying learning through narrow “real-world use” and toward understanding knowledge as cumulative and enabling really matters — especially for subjects like maths, where foundations quietly determine what becomes possible later.
I also appreciated the point that “Why do I need to know this?” is often less philosophical than it sounds. In practice, it’s frequently a signal of overload or confusion, not resistance. When clarity, sequencing, and success are in place, questions about relevance tend to fade because competence itself becomes motivating. Understanding doesn’t just support learning — it creates meaning.
I’ve been pushing folks to be more explicit about this with students. Now, more than ever, we need to try to explain to students why having information on the device in their pockets is not the same as in their own brain.
It's unfortunate that most of the basic concepts are removed from the curriculum. Within high school, this aspect is completely alienated and focuses already on quite applied knowledge. As a result, students become specialists at quite a young age, without the broad knowledge concepts that supports further learning. At Academia Libera Mentis, our emphasis is in focusing on key concepts that apply across 'subjects', and providing a higher level general knowledge, underpinned by understanding key data and statistics. This helps expanding your world view. See https://liberamentis.substack.com/p/episode-1-a-new-mould-for-education?r=21o3ms
Our youth want quick results and fast pace, as do many of their parents. What we teach in school may not seem valuable tomorrow but like language it shapes our future. As an ENL teacher I am always trying to use realia in my lessons along with practical uses. Sometimes we need to step back and look at the big picture.
High school students asking "why we need to know this" are asking in the context of their whole lives. Many of my students, anxious about where they will get their next meal or how their family will pay the utilities bills, are wondering how what school teaches will help right now. Our response to the question is: "What are you good at? What do you feel you know that helps you live your life? Could you teach it to someone else?" When young people begin to teach each other, younger children, or even older people, they feel that the teacher-learner relationship is meaningful through their own experience. Then we help the young person organize with peers to find ways they can get paid real wages for sharing what they know. See @jaygillen for more.
Agreed and revisiting my point on the memorization of the tables post, which is probably not popular. Children need to learn to be thinkers; being able to state 3x1=3, 3x2=6 or 3x3=9 is secondary, in my view to understanding the reasoning and process behind the progression of sums. Having the charts as a quick reference is also important. Hanging in the classroom or home so that students can reference as they are working through problems; have it as a tool to aid learning so that memorization has knowledge behind it.
I love this piece. I think about that question often--why do we need to know this?
As a history teacher, it's perhaps easier for me to answer more directly. But sometimes it isn't, and this article explains why. Two big takeaways for me: 1. That when students are asking this question, it's often because they are confused, tired or frustrated and what they actually are asking for is help. 2. The idea of "gateway" concepts. I've been thinking a lot about what those are in history class. (e.g. knowing the 50 states - https://www.middleweb.com/51788/my-7th-graders-are-memorizing-the-50-states/)
I agree whole-heartedly that the question often arises out of frustration. Students who are "getting it" don't necessarily ask it.
I don’t recall it being asked that much when I was in school, but maybe I wasn’t aware of it. I was in junior high in the early 60's when the space race had begun in earnest and there seemed to be no doubt in my mind, or in the minds of many of my classmates, of why algebra or math in general would be of any use.
Given today’s technological age, one would think the same reasoning prevails, but students keep hearing that with the Internet you can just Google the answer to many questions. I think the press and others (such as PD vendors and ed schools) plant the idea in peoples' minds that math must be relevant and kids seem to delight in asking “How am I ever going to use this in life?” I get the feeling that students have picked it up from various sitcoms and other venues that use this as a stock phrase and laugh-getter. So in addition to expressing frustration, students sometimes ask this question because they are essentially told to ask it.
Sorry, but I think this post is missing something. Yes, we need foundational knowledge, but your examples seem to come from the old 'education' framing, not an awareness of the realities of life. For instance, a good reason to learn multiplication tables is so we can do estimation, as a reality check on the numbers we get from the calculator. If we don't have an ability to estimate, we can't check if we've miskeyed and are off an order of magnitude, for instance. I fear that the way you've portrayed this could lead to the old "learn latin" arguments that have been robustly debunked. We don't need the quadratic equation, it's an artifact of a curriculum that's out of date. We do need the theoretical foundations to build upon, but we also need practical knowledge, like how to balance a checkbook. Only two things wrong with education in this country, the curriculum and the pedagogy, other than that it's fine...
I agree with what you said about multiplication tables helps us estimate and double check!
It’s ironic that you say the quadratic equation is an artifact of a curriculum that is out of date, and then say we need practical knowledge like how to balance a checkbook. I’m 32 and I’ve never needed a checkbook and I don’t know how to balance one! I’m not sure these are great examples to prove the point you’re trying to make :)
Mike, heh, maybe I should've said balance a bank statement ;). OK, so I'm old. But Roger Schank used to riff on the quadratic equation ("How many hear learned it?" Everyone [100s] raises hand. "How many have ever used it?" Maybe 1-2 hands.) Think it's still apt.
There’s some validity to that, for sure! Curriculum design is incredibly complex.
I think any push towards more practical things in the curriculum should be examined carefully. I teach mostly grade 7 and 8. I often hear people say we should teach these kids about mortgages and taxes.
In my experience, most of the students don’t care. Securing a mortgage is many years away! The kids don’t care. Paying our taxes is a pretty simple process for many people with a single stream of income, where they get a T4. They punch the numbers into the tax software and they’re done.
Every minute spent on one curriculum piece means a minute not spent on something else. There’s always an opportunity cost. So to me, it’s not “is _____ worth teaching?”, it’s “is ______ worth teaching over a list of other ideas?”
The move away from justifying learning through narrow “real-world use” and toward understanding knowledge as cumulative and enabling really matters — especially for subjects like maths, where foundations quietly determine what becomes possible later.
I also appreciated the point that “Why do I need to know this?” is often less philosophical than it sounds. In practice, it’s frequently a signal of overload or confusion, not resistance. When clarity, sequencing, and success are in place, questions about relevance tend to fade because competence itself becomes motivating. Understanding doesn’t just support learning — it creates meaning.
I’ve been pushing folks to be more explicit about this with students. Now, more than ever, we need to try to explain to students why having information on the device in their pockets is not the same as in their own brain.
Agree 💯
It's unfortunate that most of the basic concepts are removed from the curriculum. Within high school, this aspect is completely alienated and focuses already on quite applied knowledge. As a result, students become specialists at quite a young age, without the broad knowledge concepts that supports further learning. At Academia Libera Mentis, our emphasis is in focusing on key concepts that apply across 'subjects', and providing a higher level general knowledge, underpinned by understanding key data and statistics. This helps expanding your world view. See https://liberamentis.substack.com/p/episode-1-a-new-mould-for-education?r=21o3ms
Our youth want quick results and fast pace, as do many of their parents. What we teach in school may not seem valuable tomorrow but like language it shapes our future. As an ENL teacher I am always trying to use realia in my lessons along with practical uses. Sometimes we need to step back and look at the big picture.
High school students asking "why we need to know this" are asking in the context of their whole lives. Many of my students, anxious about where they will get their next meal or how their family will pay the utilities bills, are wondering how what school teaches will help right now. Our response to the question is: "What are you good at? What do you feel you know that helps you live your life? Could you teach it to someone else?" When young people begin to teach each other, younger children, or even older people, they feel that the teacher-learner relationship is meaningful through their own experience. Then we help the young person organize with peers to find ways they can get paid real wages for sharing what they know. See @jaygillen for more.
Agreed and revisiting my point on the memorization of the tables post, which is probably not popular. Children need to learn to be thinkers; being able to state 3x1=3, 3x2=6 or 3x3=9 is secondary, in my view to understanding the reasoning and process behind the progression of sums. Having the charts as a quick reference is also important. Hanging in the classroom or home so that students can reference as they are working through problems; have it as a tool to aid learning so that memorization has knowledge behind it.
Do you know of any universities where I can do an Ed.D in the SOL?